Please read the following scenario carefully

Please read the following scenario carefully. A discussion will follow.

Scenario One:

Andrew Lee is an American of Chinese descent. He has a death metal band called Ripped to Shreds. Ripped to Shreds were booked to play a gig with a much older death metal band called Master, who were in the middle of a US tour, but Ripped to Shreds decided to cancel their gig with Master and end ties with their booking agent Heavy Talent. Ripped to Shreds released a statement explaining that Master were booked to play the Metal Threat festival on a previous leg of their tour. The lineup for Metal Threat featured the openly Nazi band Arghoslent. Ripped to Shreds cited this as the reason why they cancelled their gig with Master and ended their relationship with Heavy Talent. Master were set to play on a different stage and on a different day to Arghoslent. They are yet to comment on this.

Following the announcement that Ripped to Shreds had cancelled their gig with Master, a Facebook page was created called Metal Hypocrites. The first post on this page claimed that Lee had associations with someone called Brandon Corsair of Nameless Grave Records. The post also contained screenshots of a private conversation where Corsair admitted to owning Arghoslent records. Lee subsequently responded to the Metal Hypocrites post, saying that the screenshots shared were edited to paint Corsair in a negative light, and that whilst Corsair does own Arghoslent records he explicitly said he would never display or post about them in public.

Lee was also criticised for his associations with Corsair in light of a recent video Lee posted to his YouTube channel where he discussed the problem of white supremacy in the metal community.

I will now split you up into smaller groups to talk about this scenario. Please use the following notes to guide your discussion.


Feeding the death metal scene a spat like this is like giving a kid a wad of sugar. One day there’s a flurry of activity and debate, the next utter despondency at just how inane it all appears.

This scenario is particularly curious. Namely because it features actual, self-identifying Nazis that no one (except other Nazis) wants to public align with. Arghoslent couldn’t be more explicit in their Nazism. This gives the situation a fixed point from which everyone can navigate the minutiae, funnelling the debate in the same direction. Specifically: how many handshakes away from Arghoslent is an acceptable amount?

And here’s where the highly individualised nature of music fandom reveals itself. The steady flow of traffic through the comment threads on this matter reveals an entire matrix of individual standards, each one subtly distinct from the last. “Master were wrong to play Metal Threat but Ripped to Shreds didn’t need to cancel their gig”. “Ripped to Shreds were entitled to cancel the gig but shouldn’t have virtue signalled it”. “It’s fine to play Metal Threat if you’re not playing the same day as the Nazis”. “None of this is cool and even Lee’s association with Corsair means he’s guilty by association”. “Owning Arghoslent merch is wrong”. “Owning Arghoslent merch is ok as long as you don’t wear a t-shirt in public”. “Owning Arghoslent merch is wrong but you can listen to them in private as long as you don’t financially support them”. “It’s not fine to listen to Arghoslent even in private because it normalises fascism in metal”. “Listening to Master on the third Tuesday of the month is now prohibited unless you are also purchasing a meal at the same time”.

Music scenes often think of themselves as communal operations. But loving music is also deeply atomising. People are very resistant to being challenged on what they love, or considering its implications in the context of a community. It’s like a gosling that imprints on the first thing it sees after hatching. This is usually their mother (or Iron Maiden), but sometimes it’s a human, or an unsuspecting dog (or NSBM). Music bypasses the rational part of our brain; we develop a pre-rational attachment to it.

With age comes the realisation that the things we love – from Britney Spears to Burzum – have come at a cost, they exist in a cultural and historical context. They might even be “sketch”. So, to ensure that this attachment is not severed, we develop a matrix of principles dictating the terms and conditions under which we can interact with problematic art. The problem being that in a lot of cases this matrix is not some rational set of principles to live by but more like someone trying to regulate their sugar intake.

When something like Metal Threatgate erupts we see a whole plethora of matrixes thrown around online, all bespoke to the individual. The result is a scene talking at cross purposes. We are all asked to think about our personal codes and consider the possibility that someone else’s might be better thought through. The reflexive response is to be defensive.

If your matrix is on a different tier to someone else’s, it can feel like someone is trying to erect a barrier between you and the thing you love. Sometimes it’s not even the thing you love but some vague association. Maybe you never dreamt of listening to Arghoslent, but now that Master gig is being cancelled because of them. Is it still ok to like Master? Or any of the other bands that agreed to play Metal Threat? Is the entire Nameless Grave roster out because its co-owner has Arghoslent vinyl?

It’s these webs of equivocation that a page like Metal Hypocrites seeks to exploit, deliberately complicating the picture by drawing a tenuous link between Ripped to Shreds and Arghoslent. Any passerby may come away thinking that they must be every bit as culpable as Master. The waters duly muddied, all we can do is shrug and conclude that we’re all as dirty as each other so why bother engaging with any of it?

And that’s kind of the point. The video Lee posted to YouTube on white supremacy and metal argues that – at least in the US – metal is still a majority white genre, and it displays all the hallmarks of majority white spaces as a result. Namely, the erasure of non-white experiences, the handwaving of casual racism, and the denial that racism is even a problem. Not all of this is malicious or even intentional. Lee attempts to contextualise these prejudices, explaining their origins and how they’re perpetuated when white people continue to turn a blind eye. He’s essentially trying to make the issue visible to us again, so anyone claiming to be against racism has no excuse for ignoring it.

It’s that layer of (usually) white, (usually) male, (usually) older fans that proves most resistant to people like Lee who use their platform to speak on these issues. I’ve referred to them as the “common sense” fandom before. Broadly conservative, self-identifying as apolitical, deeply attached to metal and likely involved in the scene for many years. They would still regard Arghoslent as a step too far, but may be generally at ease with the kind of casual racism Lee has experienced in the metal scene as an American of Chinese descent.

These people are susceptible to fascism, but most of them aren’t fascists yet. They’re the remnants of metal’s origins in angry, white male working class culture in the 1970s. Historically, metal has been able to direct this demographic’s rage into a positive cultural expression in a way few other forms of music can. But these origins also explain metal’s confused or absent political orientation. It’s a form of libertarianism, oscillating wildly between left and right positions that looks incoherent at times. But there is an internal logic at play that allows strong anti-war sentiment to sit happily alongside worship of power, a proud self-reliance blend with a profound sense of community.

The older generation of death metal pioneers Lee makes reference to in his video, who unthinkingly repeated racist stereotypes to his face, were equally hostile to the paternalism of Reaganism in the 1980s, along with its deep ties to the Christian right, ties that the modern right have now – aesthetically if not in practice – all but severed.

And this brings us to the broader point. Arghoslent are that rare thing in a culture war. Clarity. Literal, goose-stepping Nazis. They are the thing that we all – at least rhetorically – claim to want nothing to do with. There is nothing postmodern or whimsical about their Hitler salutes. This is entirely distinct from the broad, Trump voting mass, some of whom converted to Trumpism after supporting Bernie Sanders. Similarly, in the UK there is some polling data indicating that Corbyn, the most high profile leftwing MP in the UK, is viewed more favourably than Kier Starmer amongst people intending to vote for the far right insurgent party Reform.

This is the chaotic politics of metal’s common sense fandom playing out in practice. The original crop of death metal artists in the late 1980s didn’t conceive of their music as political in any sense. But it was. And this is one of the most frustrating things about older metalheads. Their music has the power to make people confront a worldview diametrically opposed to their own and be moved by it. But they are utterly unwilling to engage with the implications of this in a broader historical or cultural context. And this, in turn, is one of the most frustrating things about (usually) younger, more progressive fans keen to politicise everything. Their efforts often result in little more than boiling nuance down to consumer choice. They find themselves drawn to music made by people they see as problematic. Yet rather than use this as an opportunity to interrogate their worldview, they create a set of rules that will dictate when and under what circumstances they can enjoy the music.

Incidentally, Master’s culpability in all this is curiouser still. They are a rare example of an old school death metal band with a more explicit, left leaning politics. But their appeal, much like punk, bridges the divide. At the time of writing, Master are yet to comment. I’ve met Paul Speckmann a couple of times, and we interviewed him for the Necropolis Podcast. So I can only speckmannulate (I’m so sorry) on what he makes of all this. He’s a mellow, personable chap, keen to shore up his legacy as one of the founders of death metal. He seems a little bemused by politics now. Troubled by the hyperbole of Trumpism, but unsure of where or how this came about. In regard to contemporary metal he seems equally ambivalent. Happy to ride out Master’s legacy, release the occasional album, and continue to enjoy the good graces of anyone appreciative of his music.

I’m not even convinced he looked too closely at the Metal Threat lineup. But Lee clearly thinks that avoiding a festival willing to book Arghoslent is, in his words, a very low bar to clear.

The common sense fandom outlined above will no doubt see Lee’s actions as an unwanted slap on the wrist. More woke finger wagging and policing of behaviour that they will dismiss as “unmetal”.

Maybe the one thing we can all agree on is that episodes like this make us uncomfortable. Uncomfortable that racism is still a problem in “our” space, uncomfortable that you might be complicit in it, or uncomfortable that you’ve been liking your thing for many years, and now you’re being challenged on that love and you just don’t like it.

But this discomfort allows us to boil down an apparently complex issue to a simple binary. If you’re a fan of metal, you either accept the discomfort that comes with the territory and choose to learn and grow with it, or you don’t really like or understand metal as an artform in its totality. 

To metalheads that refuse to admit that metal is even small “p” political, what exactly do you get from this music? And if your response to Ripped to Shreds throwing down the gauntlet is to claim “it’s metal, it’s meant to be offensive etc. etc.”, sure, it’s metal, it’s meant to be difficult and it’s meant to challenge you. Did you think liking music this extreme and over the top would be easy? Uncomplicated? Did you think you’d never be asked to think about why or on what terms you like it?

This whole episode may well be farcical, but at least it gives us the opportunity to do a little housekeeping. If you like metal as intensely as you claim, this comes with a degree of responsibility. I don’t necessarily agree with every point Lee has made this last week, but at least he’s engaged with his relationship to metal and spoken out about it.  

Equally naïve is demanding that everyone conform to your specific metrics in these scenarios. That Arghoslent are over the line may be an agreed fact. But just before that line is an array of people trying to understand their love of Master, or Sinister, or Unleashed, or any of the other broadly popular bands that agreed to play Metal Threat. It takes time, effort, and a lot of good faith discussion to understand how the scene should metabolise something like this. It also evolves in light of new information. How should we react if and when Master do respond for example?

The need to engage with other fans is especially urgent if, like me, you’re a factory settings straight white bloke born after 1985 who grew up in a broadly liberal environment. You are not subject to discrimination and feel broadly at home in metal spaces, but you also consider yourself anti-racist and alive to the “issues”. You already have at least one thing in common with people espousing slightly different views on these comment threads. You both love metal. And you both love metal from apparently divergent political and social positions. Why not take the opportunity to explore that with each other? It’s not enough to be like “yeh, boy, racism sucks right”, because, aside from the Arghoslents of the world, more often than not racism is never just about racism.

I realise that trying to squeeze something positive from such an untidy episode makes me look hopelessly naïve. But social media is designed to stoke these exact hostilities. And whoever is behind the Metal Hypocrites page is cynically manipulating the situation to erase further discussion on the problem of racism in metal. In light of this, I’d rather be naïve than silent.

15 thoughts on “Please read the following scenario carefully

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  1. Very beautiful article. I agree with you that the situation Is complex and ignoring It or trying to make It simpler by reducing It to a (almost) binary choice Is not the correct way. The matter or consequences (and in some measure the reasons) of the love for this genre was something I’ve thought about in the past but never faced or rationalized with enough clarity. Happy that your words had a role in bringing back those thoughts to my mind. That for me Is enough to not consider these words naive.

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  2. There’s an important dimension to this that you’re missing — you’re assuming good faith on Andrew Lee’s part, that he honestly doesn’t feel comfortable playing a show with Master because of their affiliations with Arghoslent. Even ignoring how easy it is to connect him to Arghoslent (him and his label co-owner have provided Arghoslent with more direct financial support than Master ever have), it’s clear that Andrew started this shitshow entirely to create press for his own band, at Master’s expense. He asked to be added to the Master show long after they had been added to Metal Threat (and long after it was known that Arghoslent, GBK, and Graveland were playing), and it’s not like he didn’t know — he had already done a video obliquely about Metal Threat before he screwed Master over, so he clearly knew who was playing Metal Threat. Playing a show with Master only became “an issue” when he could profit off of cancelling it, while completely screwing over another band (Master ended up having five other venues cancel their shows because of the drama Andrew started).

    No one is trying to erase any political discussion in metal (the fact that no one involved with “Metal Hypocrites” has ever tried to cancel your blog stands as testament to that). What does need to be stamped out is “political, but only when it’s convenient for me!” grandstanding at the expense of others.

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  3. Andrews vid has holes in it. Firstly, he ignores the indonesian scene in his vid; which is massive. He then complains about white metal being inherently white in a white majority country. Go to a none white majority country and guess what…. the scene is majority non white. Metal is not Eurocentric at all. the 80s and 90s saw bands and scenes emergin worldwide. The US, Europe (there isn’t a white identity in Europe btw… Go tell the Polish they;re the same as the Portugese and that you cant tell them apart at all; you’ll look an idiot), Japan, India, South America (someone tell sarcofago they;re eurocentric lol)…. scenes were also emerging in the 90s in the Phillipines and Indonesia too; and these are just the ones I know of. Then Black metal scenes…. most countries have one.

    As stated by another poster, Andrew has funded the people he is complaining about… and joined a bill knowing these bands would be there…. and he just used this oppurutnity to screw over Master and get some clout, because he cant make an impact musically. He is also a racist himself, and cant take critique, for the fact that he deleted 600 comments from his vid.He is known for race baiting and playing victim.

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  4. Am I the only person who realizes that Master was booked at 924 Gilman, a venue that has a history of antiracism and banning metal bands from playing at the venue. Do people not realize that with or without RTS being on the show it would have been cancelled regardless? Especially considering a local promoter put up the money to even have the show happen in the first place it would be extremely short sided to put the cancellation entirely on RTS or Andrew. You would have to willingly ignorant to the history of 924 Gilman to not know this especially the guys in Master, it was even included in a movie that reacted an actual Neo-nazi riot that happened there in the 80’s.

    Literally all just a google search away, but again who does research these days?

    https://www.kqed.org/arts/13973907/freaky-tales-true-stories-pedro-pascal-too-short-924-gilman-oakland

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  5. Andrew Lee’s label, Nameless Graves Record, worked with Messe Noire, Nuclear Winter, and Moribund records. They are all labels that distributed blatant NSBM releases.

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  6. Andrew Lee’s label, Nameless Graves Records, worked with labels such as Messe Noire, Nuclear Winter, and Moribund Records that distributed blatant NSBM records

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  7. This debacle once again proves that metalheads are not quite as impervious to propaganda and The Current Thing™ as they’d like to think. In fact, it seems that a majority of American metalheads have followed suit with at least a third of “normie” Americans in thoughtlessly capitulating to Trumpist neofascist indoctrination. Outside of maligned fringes, metal would’ve never been this eager and adamant to defend the glorification of the slave trade in any prior decade of its existence. I was first introduced to extreme metal by a Christian metal forum in the 2000s that was almost unanimously ultra-conservative and pro-Bush, and even those individuals were not too chickenshit to risk being labeled “PC,” “woke” or “libtard” (or some other thought-terminating reactionary pejorative) as a result of condemning the shit that Arghoslent glorifies. I think it is no unique fault of metalheads that they too have been cucked by an unimaginably well-funded and pervasive set of propaganda campaigns by the GOP – except insofar as they (again) tend to vastly overestimate their own fortitude against mental and ideological programming that “mainstream sheeple” tend to fall for, and are perhaps made yet more susceptible to it by virtue of such largely unwarranted hubris. I find it painfully embarrassing as a metalhead for going on two decades that fortysomething and older metalheads remain attached to the infantile notion that true fealty to metal requires itself to be prioritized over basic decency (even if this were the case, Intestine Baalism is leagues better musically). There is no degree of annoyance via over-zealous “wokesters” that could make the earnest glorification of slavery anything but unconscionable and inexcusable.

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    1. “Outside of maligned fringes, metal would’ve never been this eager and adamant to defend the glorification of the slave trade in any prior decade of its existence”

      Guess you weren’t around twenty years ago in the 2000s, when Arghoslent were at the peak of their popularity? Their second album, “Incorrigible Bigotry”, was probably the second most talked up album in the death metal underground in the years from 2000-2005 (matched only by “Conjuration of the Spectral Empire”).

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      1. If by “death metal underground” you mean the website named Death Metal Underground, then yes. But that is not representative of the actual metal scene

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      2. Nah, it was way more than ANUS (ANUS/DMU actually has always shit on Arghoslent for “not finishing their songs”). It used to have a >90% average review score on metal-archives before they went on a political review purge (Empyreal’s original review for it was 100%, before he saw which way the political winds were blowing and changed his review to a 40%, and there’s a lot of similar cases), it was the most talked about album on both that forum, Ultimate Metal’s forum, Metal Observer’s forum, and Metal Rules’s forum, and pretty much anywhere else you went online where people were talking about metal. Even folks on black metal specific sites such as blackmetal.co.uk and FMP were talking it up.

        It was absolutely *huge* back in the day.

        (Based on what I’ve seen, in terms of people who interact with the metal scene in any way except through a screen, the DMU has far more current or former staff that are active in the metal scene than any other metal website in existence, but that’s another story…)

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      3. Andrew Lee found out what happens when you cater to a McKenty-esque crowd of quasi-literate dabblers via tepid “deep dives” suited for the attention span of goldfish, just to turn around and show a hint of backbone in denouncing Klan coworker rock. People like Andew Lee, Finn McKenty, Wyattxhim and other influencers with marginally above-average metal “cred” are responsible for shepherding swarm after swarm of low-IQ racist beardo into the far reaches of the underground. Of course discussing a band that fantasizes about “the sweating backs of n-word slaves” while jacking each other off is only “political” in the case of disavowal. The herd only recognizes politics as political when it differs from whatever politics has been rendered “default” by the-powers-that-shouldn’t-be. Notice how quickly he reverted back to introducing children and Trump supporters to entry-level grind bands with the utmost superficial clickbaiting sensationalism. (A GRINDCORE band referenced EVANGELION?!? Cue soyface in thumbnail.) He knows which side his bread is buttered on, and it isn’t one that tolerates the remotest criticism of Anglo-American regards saying “we wuz YHWH’s chosen n shiet.” That said, I accept the rebuttal pointing out that many prolific users of metal message boards (including – no, especially – those who were upheld as “pillars of the community”) were pretty goddamn stupid even twenty years ago, when using the internet at any length required some paltry baseline of critical thinking ability and literacy.

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  8. But this discomfort allows us to boil down an apparently complex issue to a simple binary. If you’re a fan of metal, you either accept the discomfort that comes with the territory and choose to learn and grow with it, or you don’t really like or understand metal as an artform in its totality. 

    You can’t demand that people like all metal bands or they’re not true fans of metal. Weird gatekeeping and extremely binary for sure

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  9. And this is one of the many reasons why I don’t play live anymore.

    It’s not enough to make your own views plain and public. You’re expected, as an independent musician, to background check every band, every band member, every promoter, every festival, every label, and every venue.

    All your possible sources for this background checking information are shit. Cliques and gossip mostly for the smaller scenes.

    Even if you ask the individuals in question, often they’ll dodge and strawman, offering an example of how they once played on a racially diverse bill, or are friends with someone who is culturally diverse.

    So you go ahead with the gig, but someone else decides that your gig doesn’t meet their test of political sanitation, and you get sledged for being associated with racists anyway.

    Or in this case, the armchair pundit decides even if you pull out, you should have pulled out earlier. It’s all rather easy to sit there and tell bands and musicians their business. It’s very tiring to hear when you’re on this side, being made responsible for a whole bunch of shit you never wanted to know about.

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